Strategies for V7
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Strategies for V7
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So my easy win and sandbox strategy on 6.1 was to run a wall of dark templars. In many cases the AI would just keep running into it and dieing.
I figured this would be a good chance to throw up some strategies you have, or maybe used to have (and they dont work now) for beating AI v7.
The Protos don't react properly to Hellions. I go straight to the Factory with a Reactor (my build is Supply->Rafinery->Barack->Supply->Factory->Reactor to the Barack->Second Factory->Putting the 1st Factory over the Barack's Reactor->SPAM Hellions.
A bit of micro and the AI gives up.
It would be nice if the developers made the AI go for Stalkers when I'm massing Hellions.
89.190.216.xxx
You know that's a TvZ strat not a TvP one right?
The AI probably is countering it, but too late, just like a real player, he's constrained by what he can scout. By the time the first wave hits him, if he hasn't got cyber core for stalkers up he's screwed.
Yea, Protoss seems to be just massing zealots for far too long. Just quickly tech up to flying units, snipe down their cyb core (at this time they didn't have any stargates for me) and it's technically over them. (standard difficulty)
62.165.230.xxx
Well, I don't have a key and that's why I don't know what strat this is, but it works fine against the tossAI. And considering the fact that I was microing the hellions arround the zealot's for like 5 minutes before I get enough of them to atack the base and he was even able to create a nexus at the first expand and load it with probes... Nope, it wasn't that he had no time, he just didn't.
My second game was TvZ. I tried to go the same way, but the AI rushed me with zerglings. It was nice surprise, but from there on he didn't do a thing right. First, there was absoluetly no micro in the zerglins atack, so I killed them with my workers. After that I went to contraatack with the remaining workers (there was about 15 of them, i left 3 to collect minerals) and constantly reinforcing them with marines from one barack (i panicked and forget to put a Reactor :/ ). On the way to their base the AI sent a couple lings, but when I got there in it's base the only protection it had was a Queen, which died fast surrounded with my workers and two marines. From then on the AI made only one more Queen, but spawn a lot of new workers... which was very stupid and I had no problem killing them all.
I suspect the problem is that the AI looks to replace the dead workers before creating a new army.
89.190.216.xxx
standard difficulty has no bonus to speed over a normal player. it's unlikely they'll be able to beat a normal player at things as complex as direct counters ever without full access to the underlying code the way blizzard has.
i.e. blizzard may eventually make AI that clever, but for just a simple scripting engine based one like this, it's expecting a lot.
thanks again for all your hard work on this AI btw, it's really great for practise for those of us without beta accounts yet :)
89.241.91.xxx
Eh, that's not necessarily true. It's far from impossible, just a lot of tedious code to make it work smoothly. That's what Blizzard is for :)
The strategy for protoss right now is not to build much zealots at all, instead, tech to dark templars, templar archive, or robotics a.s.a.p., you should always have a sentry or 2 to block off the ramp incase they decide to hit you early and you cant beat their army.
For zerg, openers should either be mass roaches to hydras for or mass speedlings and some crawlers for base defense to fast mass mutas (only works vs zerg and vs protoss).
For terran, you should just mass m&m bio push with stim in about 8 mins and tech for drops (it is basically an instant win option). Otherwise you can rush banshees and get some tanks/hellions. Another option would be fast tech for hellions and drop the mineral line.
These are by far the strongest strategies for patch 5.
154.5.185.xxx
vT: trick the terran AI into lifting off, as it doesn't seem to recover from this (rush him with ground units).
Have only played 2 games with v7 but I like it already. Lost a 2v2, even though I think I played ok... haven't toyed with it enough but seems like a big improvement (except for that lift bug)
Supply 10 >
Barracks#1 11 >
Cut SCV's >
Barracks#2 13 >
Max SCV's >
Refinery 15 >
Supply 17 >
Max Marines >
Barracks#3 19 >
After barracks#3 on 19 or so, I'll wait for 50minerals/50gas and upgrade barracks #1 with Reactor and #2-#3 with tech. Then I bulk up 2 marines, 2 marauders and 1 SCV and will continually do this until im 2 supply away from having to build another supply depot. Then I upgrade to orbital command and go for second refinery.
Eventually my income will be greater than my spending on 2Marines/2Maruder/1SCV, at which point I'll start building star-port's and 1 fusion core.
By now I now i'm about to be attacked, so I throw down a scan at their ramp and if the enemy is teching i'll attack, and if they are not, i'll wait for their attack and mow them down at my ramp (while upgrading starport #1 to a reactor and #2-#3 to tech. (Build 2 vikings on #1 and build either 1 banshee and 1 Battle Cruiser, or build 2 BC's on the others.)
After my first wave washes out their Rax/Gate/Hatchery ill destroy all their tech (mainly anything that can counter air) and then roll in with 2 BC's and 2 Vikings and finish them off. If that doesn't work, then i'll roll in with my ground units (which my air units have drastically weakened) and claim the kill.
IF this still doesnt work, I just repeat while expanding.
I have yet to lose a game using this strategy vs the Star Crack AI..
98.148.96.xxx
Btw, im not gloating, i'm just pointing out that the AI script lack's any real personality. It needs better initial build orders and strategies (mainly fast air/heavy artillery).
I'd take a Que from IAI v2.1a build (best i've played so far out of 4 AI scripts), it does a really good job of putting out air units or heavy hitters fast after counters or when people are turtling/teching. It also hits HARD. In v7, i'm still seeing a fairly weak game play.
To be fair, IAI plays with maphack on, so i'll repeat this process 10-20 with maphack on for the AI on v7.
BTW,
Thanks again for the script. I know I sound criticizing, but i'm actually very thankful. You guys have done a great job.
98.148.96.xxx
the other topics are locked... so here goes
me(z) vs t.
built about 5 banelings, 5 roaches and 5 zerlings or so. ai came with the first rush of 12-14 marines, then ran away. i followed, beat the sht out of him
86.104.46.xxx
switched on the maphack. Still didn't counter the hellions.
89.190.216.xxx
It doesn't seem like the AI will expand at all. They just mine out their main, but never expand.
66.189.76.xxx
Way too easy. easier then 6.1.1
in 6.1.1 i was having to do 1v5 to make it hard, but sense it was my first time trying ai#7 i thought id jsut go against 1 and see whats what.
Well I had 6 carriors when the enemy still had just roaches and zerglings... Plus to top it off it didnt even try to get a 2nd base. it just noobed around in its starting base and got mowed over.
On a plus note though the enemy did kill a rock to backdoor attack my base rather then assult the front. which i had yet not seen.
76.238.246.xxx
BTW ive gotten used to the fact that in games like CnC or wc3 or SC. You cant make an AI thatll beat really good players and those players must play 1v2 1v3 or even more to get a hard challenge.
But this ai7 after one game i got a feeling im going to be able to 1v5 it easy, id say 1v7 it easy but i havent seen a 8 player map yet :D.
Thanks for the work though guys, im sure its hard to make truely tough and smart ai.
76.238.246.xxx
oh the ai is also still way to succeptable to a cannon rush. its so easy to win a 5 minute game without even trying :/
and for those who say cannon rush is gay, well I say a wins a win.
76.238.246.xxx
Tried this new AI on moderate ... for now found it easier than v6.1.1 ^^
Will try higher levels and report
Anyway thanks a lot for the amazing job you do !! /big hug :o)
93.0.248.xxx
the thing is starcrack still has multiple strategies for each race so just because its easy one time doesnt mean it will be the next time.
216.79.148.xxx
hi all, first thank you for ur hard job developing this AI!!
I have found it easier than v6.1.1 too. for example the now "fast tech" of protoss (imo) slows too much the unit production. furthermore when i had start to attack with void ray AI doesent counter at all...it still countinue with mass zealot + immortal. i had build then some carrier + a mothership and finally i can see the first unit anti air :(
another issue: i had played some game vs protoss and (at parity of strategy: always "slow tech" with 3 gateway) the behavoir of AI doesent change in easy or hard mode (for exaple it has alwasy 10 zealot at 7 min and still produce that....). where is the difference?
sorry for english and i hope to be usefull to allow u to better tune the AI in the next version.... :)
94.36.182.xxx
Well I tried this AI on every level of difficulty
I found it much easier than 6.1 on every level except insane (which i think is the cheated mode). As said upon, protoss are really dumb at anti-air ^^. Zerg AI is quite good tho, spam roaches rapes !
I go back try to beat that zerg AI on insane ... really hard -_-'
93.0.248.xxx
How do people win as zerg vs a terran on hard? The other match ups are doable for me but not zvt.
Great job btw. Kick ass!
217.210.63.xxx
the new Version of SC2ALLin1 leaves the settings unchanged to the original one. download 4.7.1 or later
this subject must end.
thanks.
protoss doesnt do much they mass zealots then always tech to immortals, they never use sentinels against range attacks or make DTs or seen them make phoenixes or a mothership. i the toss are the easiest to beat
202.128.37.xxx
AGREED!
If you edit the galaxy script and use lazy launcher, of just use the new 4.7.1 which is excellent and worth your time, there should be hardly anyone bitching about this being to easy... it's not easy, it's just not, put it on hard a go at vs as many comps as you want - then tell me if it was easy.