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Brainstorm with me for a few if you all will. Our goal: to merge maps and projects.
So we have a few things we really want to solve with this:
So now, here's what I'm thinking.
Maps become projects, except, that rather than having an entire separate system, each map can just have a "new version" flag, which simply points to the newest version of the map.
Maps with this flag, would still be visible (if you went to their page), but they would tell you that you're viewing an old version (much like they do with the projects right now).
These maps would then receive a lower priority in search, and the browse pages. Basically, any map that isnt marked as "old" would be placed above it (except in search, where its weighted).
This would then make it so if you search for "DotA", there's much fewer results, and hopefully the real dota not only shows up top, but all versions of it disappear (mostly).
There's also the alternative method which we could do in browse/search, which just says "N old versions were omitted from your search results" much like Google does, and a link to show all results. Personally, I prefer this one, but I'll leave that up to you guys.
So, now, we've eliminated the project system entirely (success), and we just need to fix management of these. We have already built a basic map component into the dashboard, but we would clean this up. It'd appear much more like the projects component, and again a "show older versions" link would be present. Each map would simply have an "Upload New Version" associated with it.
Users would also be able to do this (without being the author), and we'd place it in the pending changes system. This would mean that any of you could upload a new version of DotA, and it would instantly become available. As soon as a moderator sees the pending change, it would then be linked in with the older versions of DotA.
Let's get to the feedback. I'm very curious as to what everyone thinks of this concept, as it's a bit different than what other sites do. I definitely think its the right approach to simplifying what has become a confusing process.
As long as there is full control of the maps, as well as adding in a "list" feature, because say for example killing projects would kill arrangements like these:
http://wc3.nibbits.com/projects/maps-reviewed-by-mecatronic/
http://wc3.nibbits.com/projects/assorted-legacy-clan-orpg-maps/
Which looks like they've been killed XD.
Ya those arrangements aren't what projects were designed for anyways, that's why lists will fix that ;)
Some more notes:
Here's how the map pages are going to look:
sir just a suggestion, what about if there will be a little list on the right panel sidebar to show some recent old versions of the maps. hehehehe
I currently own 2 extra computers at home (besides the ones i use in everyday's work) that i could offer you 24/7,free of charge, to host you maps database and stuff. Just send me an email at calinescudan@ymail.com in which you tell me what exactly do you need to host.
The computers im talking about are pretty decent. 2GB ram, 2 GHZ dual core procs etc.
So when a map is updated the old map disappears from the ranking? And the new one is ranked last/ total maps. ??
That's it ST. I totally support this idea, since sometimes we have 3 updates for the same map in a week, and they all enter the popular list, which is silly.
I also liked the list thing, although I'm not sure how the ads/donate are going to work without projects.
And yeah, "show hidden results" is a must-have.
dcramer,
I mostly support everything you're suggesting. However, discovering new versions of maps might not be that kind of linear process when you make the first version of the map, then you make the second and so on to the last version. Versions of the map might be like branches of the big tree.
For example, during the development process I can make few versions of my map and then understand I went wrong direction and decide to roll back through several versions and start to change that initial one.
This is especially true if someone edits your map. For example, this map was made from scratch by xenoth_rus as a total modificaton of another map. Then azala made his own versions of the map. After that xenoth_rus may probably want to continue making his own versions and if he does so we'll see how initially integral notion of a map splits: we now have two distinct visions on the same map.
What I want to say is that remembering all the genealogical tree of a given map might be nice to see. It looks more like a wiki content with crossover links.
And also, the new versions of a map may very much vary by the amount of changes which distinguishes it from the parent: small erratums, balance/gameplay improvements or total revision of the original. One may credit the given map (or maps) as not being the direct predecessor but giving the maker an initial idea. Or the map may be totally remade from scratch (terrain, triggers or both), who is the owner then?.. It would be nice to see that things find their reflection.
Yea, the problem with lots of versions in short succession usually has to do with very little bug testing before releasing a map. Generally maps drop in ranks over time as more new maps are uploaded and they get older on nibbits anyway so that kind of deals with old versions.
I agree with wormer on new versions not always being a linear process. I also dislike the idea of not being able to see all the versions on nibbits. As I sort through my maps I always check on nibbits and try to update old versions of maps with some information. Often though there are multiple versions of the same map and it's just a judgment call on which was the best. Anyway just thinking that might get complicated.
I kinda thought Project pages were neat as they gave you more of an idea of what projects have been worked on recently/might still be worked on by members of nibbits. As opposed to other maps that might have lots of versions up but not actually be a project on nibbits. That and projects page gives you more space to add in changelogs and such. Anyway just my two cents.
I very much prefer the "Projects" portion as opposed to individual maps, unless you can easily "attach" older revisions of a map to a new revision.
Say for example, I update my TD. Now, there are about 5 revisions on nibbits that are of "release" quality, and when I update I attach it to my project, and if someone hovers over the old version they are notified by the little red banner saying X is the newest version.
Now, for example, if I say "X is the new version" and I upload that, (which I will be soon, actually) how will someone easily know that 1.00 is the newest, and that .30b is older (without noticing the version number) and more importantly, how will they be informed if such an update even exists? Also, will past revisions appear in a list as they do now with projects? I'm a huge fan of seeing past revisions on project pages.
Don't have time to reply to everything, but let me say that I've thought this through :)
So, the way this works, is you get a notice just like you would if a map was a newer version in a project. There is also an "older versions" tab, which I will probably rename to other versions.
Now, based on points made above, I may have to add some kind of "Upload alternate version" or something, that doesn't specifically mean "New".
What about the multiple ver of the same map on the rank board?
Was it suggested to do "popular maps in projects" with this merge? So every map gets a project and ranked by the highest ranked map in the project?
Projects will no longer exist (publicly). There's still some code in the backend that automagically creates little projects for map versions, but as they are now, you wont see them.
This would remove every map marked as "there is a new version of this" from listing pages, with an option to "show old versions of maps" in those pages. This means they will also be removed from popular/etc.
To calculate ranking on these, we take a combined total of certain things from maps such as downloads, and times hosted, and combine that with the map date, and the map rating (not the combined map rating), so that a new map can still receive a high rank based on how popular its other versions were.
The changes I discussed have now been pushed live.
Let me know what you guys think, and I'll tweak it with any improvements we come up with.
It appears my huge carefully typed out change log of all my map versions (that fit) on Civilization World series is no longer in existence. Luckily I keep a backup of such things but I am uncertain where to put it now. If I throw it all under the most recent version nobody will read the new changes, under the new system where should I put this information?
Ok so what you would do now (and I do still have all the projects btw) is put it under whatever map, and the changelog should be per-map.
Now when you click "Submit a new version" it defaults your tags, categories, and description, to the previous.
I'm still not 100% sure I'm completely happy with this. We may eventually move into a combined map+project system so the new functionality works like it does, but you can gain a permalink + additional features for your project.
Nice how the same maps in diff ver not cloging the pop board.
Where did that site improvements thread go(just too tired to find it right now)? Eh, just wanted to know why there isn't a # next to the map showing its rank of popularity? Sure its in line but people might think its site faves or w/e. Ranking should show a # next to the map on the home page.
Popularity is a bit more complicated, and every so often a number disappears (e.g. there may be a 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, but no #2).
I made more improvements on the flight home today, but they wont be lieve til this weekend. Cleans up a lot of the automatic map linking, and allows you to submit older versions as well.